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Morlord

TitanRO Token Rewards

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Dunno how far ahead the TitanRO Token system is planned, but I'd like to suggest the following rewards for collecting Tokens: (mainly old Cash Shop Headgears)

Chick Hat (allows Double Attack Lv 2) - Price: ~5 - 10 Tokens
Peco Hairband (perm Increase AGI Movement Speed*, +25% variable cast time, -10%ASPD) - Price ~10 - 15 Tokens
Fantastic Wig (perm Increase AGI Movement Speed*, allows use of Hiding Lv 1, takes TOP & MID slot) - Price ~10 - 15 Tokens
Koneko Hat (3% skill delay reduction, +3%MATK/MaxSP) - Price ~5 - 10 Tokens
Robo Eye (+2% MATK/ATK, +1 DEX) - Price ~10 - 15 Tokens
Ramen Hat (3% Chance to cast Decrease AGI, +4 DEX) - Price ~20 - 25 Tokens
Pirate Dagger (+5 ATK) - Price ~5 - 10 Tokens
Well-Chewed Pencil (+2 DEX, +3 HIT) - Price ~10 - 15 Tokens
Fish In Mouth (Chance to drop Fresh Fish, +25% Fresh Fish Recovery Rate) - Price ~10 - 15 Tokens

*does not stack with Increase AGI skill or other Movement Speed Items (except Assassin Improve Dodge passive)

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Most of these are Cash shop or broken. Chick hat tho i am for. It's a reasonable version  of snake head. If it isn't slotted too I think it'd be ok. 

 

Fantastic wig is busted tho, as is Robo eye, pencil and pirate dagger. 

 

Ramen Hat also completely invalidates Apple of Archer. 

 

Most of them arent interesting items items that add choices either. It's just straight up better in raw stats with no better alternative.

 

chick hat is the only one one since it takes headgear slot and is only level 2 double attack. 

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How is Chick Hat not broken in this list? Is that not best in slot for every class that uses normal attacks?

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1 hour ago, Saegys said:

How is Chick Hat not broken in this list? Is that not best in slot for every class that uses normal attacks?

It's only 10% chance at level 2, AGI builds that rely on normal attacks would probably just opt for a complete Class Card Set or a Myst Card or other on hit effects over that, as the damage output can be easily beaten with any decent card/headgear.
Not to mention that an AGI build is more Gimmicky than useful with these EXP Tables we have, it's mainly something for characters that you plan on farming with but never getting to Lv 99.

It's really only useful for the Thief classes.

 

Prices are also just suggestions, they can be way higher if justified.
As with Tokens everyone has the chance to aquire those items if they dedicate time to farming Tokens, so noone is left out, even weaker PvM classes.

 

Fantastic Wig uses up 2 Headgear slots, leaving you with only the lower one.
Meaning you get no Top Slotted Headgear for a Card and no mid Headgear for extra stats.
And a Hiding Accessory is not core of any build afaik, just complementary/gimmicky if available.

Robo Eyes mainly just for the DEX, as Binoculars are Archer class only and other DEX reliant classes are left out/have no alt option.
Stats of these Headgears can also be changed if needed, aka make Robo Eyes identical to Binoculars for example.

And Pirate Dagger is just 5 ATK, how is that OP anywhere in Pre-Trans/Trans?
Impositio Manus Lv 1 basically.


Ramen Hat mainly aimed for Trappers, Forgers and Potters.
Apple of Archer is still an option, as it will be easier obtainable / cheaper option for low a Budget.
Hence Ramen Hats Token Price can be way higher to make it an achievement.

 

It's not like everyone already has the most optimum Gear to begin with.
Having several Low/Mid/High budget gears available can't be a bad thing imo.
It's not like these will become plenty, especially with our current population and when priced accordingly.

Edited by Morlord

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Sincerely the prices are way too low. 
It's easy to farm tokens and even easier to buy them.

It would be funny if we had a random box, similar to the costume one, with 25 or 30 token cost, that could reward with a random headgear listed above.

Or make a 20 random box, similar to those random box, could change that weekly, being random and giving away pots and a random hat/accessory.

(check: https://www.ragnarokonline.com.ph/news/kafrashop-update-23052018, my idea would copy the Summer Scroll,  making the RNG profitable and cleaning the tokens that people are farming :)

 

Hope you guys like it

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I think this itens will come by quest, it's just too easy to farm with Token stuff

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Why would you want to turn a decent server into another dumpster fire where everyone wears same overpowered kafra shop garbage? Just stay on re:tard and enjoy your +2 dex low heads there.

Edited by auri
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I think they could maybe be added at a later date, at a time that they naturally appeared in the timeline of RO history. I have a lot of screenshots from my time playing iRO on and off 2002 - present (until EU block), though not really comprehensive due to breaks I took so can't be sure. Looking at my screenshots though my characters weren't wearing stuff like Puppy Hat, PecoPeco Hairband, Pirate Dagger, Well-Chewed Pencil etc. until around the time New World was introduced (2009). Also there is the Zodiac headgears that were intoduced by then (Diadems and Crowns). Snake Head Hat came later, by 2011 it seems when Bifrost / Eclage came in. CD in Mouth maybe even later than that, or I just struggled to afford buying one off other players' vends until 2015, but I also had a long hiatus.

I never played Re:Start, but it seems they were introduced very early, so it was seen as overshadowing all else. As far as playing on iRO pre-Re into Renewal went though, when they were introduced at those times they were seen as good but not the be all and end all of headgears since other decent headgears had already been introduced by then. Then by the time the latest episode content came around, barely anyone used things like Snake Head except folks like me who played a Battle Priest. In fact when recently I would try to sell Snake Head noone was interested in buying it (not many people played Battle Priest). The only use I got out of PecoPeco Hairband by then was to walk quicker while doing quests, because of the massive ASPD penalty it gave it wasn't worth using it while attacking. Puppy Hat I used to like for my autoblitz falcon hunter, but that build became unpopular with later nerfs to falcon blitz damage, and said nerfs are probably already in by now so we see more trappers than blitzers.

I also am not active in WoE or PvP though, always just PvM. So I never really saw how certain headgears was or wasn't abused in those arenas. I guess there can always be restrictions made  for stuff to not be usable in WoE / PvP or exclude certain classes from wearing them if need be. For example if Priests were permitted to wear such stuff they won't be owning everything with them, if an acolyte wants to own stuff they'd go Monk with stuff like Triple Attack, Guillotine Fist ;)

I also agree that Titan Tokens wouldn't be a good avenue for implementating how they are obtained. As said due to how farmable they are, it'd be best to keep those for cosmetics. There's probably other ways though like quests as mentioned or a reworking of the silvervine fruit system.

[EDIT] As far as Well-Chewed Pencil and Pirate Dagger goes, I've remembered now that they were available as event quests way back when, but after the current episode we're on (Niflheim - 2004), Back to School Event - 2006 (Rachel / Veins), Talk Like a Pirate Event - 2007 (Destruction of Morroc)

https://irowiki.org/wiki/Back_to_School_Event_(2006/09/19)_~_(2006/09/26)

https://irowiki.org/wiki/Talk_Like_a_Pirate_Day_Event_(2007/09/18)_~_(2007/09/25)

Old quest information here:

https://irowiki.org/wiki/Quests#2006

Edited by Sairin

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Quote

Chick Hat (allows Double Attack Lv 2) - Price: ~5 - 10 Tokens
Peco Hairband (perm Increase AGI Movement Speed*, +25% variable cast time, -10%ASPD) - Price ~10 - 15 Tokens
Fantastic Wig (perm Increase AGI Movement Speed*, allows use of Hiding Lv 1, takes TOP & MID slot) - Price ~10 - 15 Tokens
Koneko Hat (3% skill delay reduction, +3%MATK/MaxSP) - Price ~5 - 10 Tokens
Robo Eye (+2% MATK/ATK, +1 DEX) - Price ~10 - 15 Tokens
Ramen Hat (3% Chance to cast Decrease AGI, +4 DEX) - Price ~20 - 25 Tokens
Pirate Dagger (+5 ATK) - Price ~5 - 10 Tokens
Well-Chewed Pencil (+2 DEX, +3 HIT) - Price ~10 - 15 Tokens
Fish In Mouth (Chance to drop Fresh Fish, +25% Fresh Fish Recovery Rate) - Price ~10 - 15 Tokens

  • Chick hat's double attack percentage only makes a real difference the closer you get to 190 aspd (closer to the exponential growth), I'd be fine with this.
  • Peco Hairband does what it does while also largely nerfing the character wearing it, it's the equivalent of a mount for non-mounted classes without access to Increase AGI. Also fine.
  • Fantastic Wig is essentially the above with no downsides. There's no huge relevant stat bonus you can get from a mid headgear so this isn't balanced very well. Not fine at all.
  • Koneko Hat is a buffed Dress hat. No way in hell.
  • Robo Eye is the most substantial boost you can get in a mid slot, making it a "you have to buy this item". Absolutely not.
  • Ramen Hat is a slightly better Apple of Archer. But due to the fact that tokens are much easier to get than apple of archer, I'd reject this on principle.
  • Pirate dagger and Well-chewed Pencil are the most substantial boosts you can get from a low slot. Absolutely not.
  • Fish in mouth is essentially a "drops this thing and makes it better" thing. Plenty of cards do it, and it's not imbalanced in the slightest.

All in all Chick hat, Peco Hairband, and Fish in mouth are balanced.

Ramen Hat is best in slot for top head for any dex based characters. Robo eye is best in slot for every character. Pencil and pirate dagger are best in slot for any melee or ranged damage (and even possibly some low-dex casters).

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On 4.6.2018 at 1:50 AM, Sadie said:

 

  • Chick hat's double attack percentage only makes a real difference the closer you get to 190 aspd (closer to the exponential growth), I'd be fine with this.
  • Peco Hairband does what it does while also largely nerfing the character wearing it, it's the equivalent of a mount for non-mounted classes without access to Increase AGI. Also fine.
  • Fantastic Wig is essentially the above with no downsides. There's no huge relevant stat bonus you can get from a mid headgear so this isn't balanced very well. Not fine at all.
  • Koneko Hat is a buffed Dress hat. No way in hell.
  • Robo Eye is the most substantial boost you can get in a mid slot, making it a "you have to buy this item". Absolutely not.
  • Ramen Hat is a slightly better Apple of Archer. But due to the fact that tokens are much easier to get than apple of archer, I'd reject this on principle.
  • Pirate dagger and Well-chewed Pencil are the most substantial boosts you can get from a low slot. Absolutely not.
  • Fish in mouth is essentially a "drops this thing and makes it better" thing. Plenty of cards do it, and it's not imbalanced in the slightest.

All in all Chick hat, Peco Hairband, and Fish in mouth are balanced.

Ramen Hat is best in slot for top head for any dex based characters. Robo eye is best in slot for every character. Pencil and pirate dagger are best in slot for any melee or ranged damage (and even possibly some low-dex casters).

This is actual constructive feedback I'd like to see and not just a plain "hell no".

Not all headgears have to be implemented and the prices themselves were just mere suggestions, in fact a 10 could be changed to a 100 or 1000 tokens, to make them an accomplishment to get.

I however do not agree with the Fantastic Wig though, having it occupy 2 slots does count as an downside imo, while its price can also just be made super high so it'll actually be rare and hard to get, maybe around 250 or 2000 tokens, depending on how the final pricing (if this suggestion halfway makes it) will turn out.


Same with Ramen Hat, up its price by 1000 - 2000 Tokens and it'll be an upgrade to Apple of Archer, but one you will have to work for and is still harder/more rare to get, but still an accomplishment and a useful item to aim for for example for your Pure Brewer/Forger or if you main a Trapper build.


@SairinAs far as WoE goes, I'd be completely fine with all these headgears being deactivated there.
These headgears are and the suggestion itself were meant for PvM purposes only that's why I want them added as some classes don't have alternatives other than these.


I.e. Binoculars can only be worn by the Archer class, Robo Eyes (if adjusted to maybe have the same amount of DEX for example) would offer an alternative to get for all classes that utilize DEX.

Pirate Dagger and Well-Chewed Pencil, I don't see why these should be much of a problem in PvM scenarios.
Of course, again, hard to get like the Ramen Hat above.

Edited by Morlord

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All of these headgears were made with the intention to sell them in cash shops, they have unique properties or stats that can't be obtained from other sources in the same slot. This is of course to incentivize people to spend money on the game.

This has the added result of devaluing all other headgears that could potentially occupy those slots.

Like why would you ever get an AoA if you could just buy a Ramen Hat instead?

These two points are the reason they're not on this server and will not be for the foreseeable future.

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9 minutes ago, Saegys said:

All of these headgears were made with the intention to sell them in cash shops, they have unique properties or stats that can't be obtained from other sources in the same slot. This is of course to incentivize people to spend money on the game.

This has the added result of devaluing all other headgears that could potentially occupy those slots.

Like why would you ever get an AoA if you could just buy a Ramen Hat instead?

These two points are the reason they're not on this server and will not be for the foreseeable future.

I think the point he was trying to make here is that yes, generally they were made with the intention of selling them in the cash shop due to their unique properties (since they are quite a bit of pay to win in the instances of specific ones like the pencil and pirate dagger), however, if you made them available as something you could get through an in-game achievement and not as an incentive to purchase them through the cash shop (whether it be through an abysmally low <0.01% rate or an incredibly difficult collection quest), then they would be best in slot gear sure, but they would be something you could have to work to acquire instead of just paying to get them.

The intent that they were created for in iRO doesn't have to be the way that you utilize them elsewhere. The items themselves if implemented correctly could have been a great boon to the community as a monument of effort. (similar to how acquiring Megjingard or Mjolnir are monuments of effort and also increase your stats by far more absurd amounts than just +5 atk or +3 dex), Plus, if the items themselves are hard enough to get it won't devalue similar items in those slots, it will only increase the price of the better item. This is mirrored in the real world by the craftsman effect. Put simply, it means that when mass production created goods while retaining normal quality, more of those goods became more available to the general public (aka the farming of normally obtainable items) however there were still craftsman who produced goods that were well above what the assembly line could create, which led to those goods becoming more expensive. (Having to farm for hundreds of hundreds of hours to acquire something slightly better)

If a Ramen hat was 1000 Titan RO coins instead of 10 like the current costumes, Yes, it would still be the best in slot for the headgear. However, to get 1000 Titan RO coins currently would cost 70 million zeny in current RO currency (which is far more than anyone has at the moment, IIRC the person with the most has ~8mil?) and the token supply would dry up long before that number of tokens has been acquired, not to mention the addition of new items to the Token coin roster would cause their value to increase exponentially when people realized there were useful things you could get with them that weren't only costume related.

Even if you didn't go the purchasing route and farmed the coins yourself, at an average rate of 10% drop from champion monsters, you'd be looking at having to kill 10,000 champion monsters to even acquire close to the level of tokens assuming RNG was in your favor.

Tl,dr;
The intent of iRO and Gravity when creating items doesn't have to be the way in which you choose to use them. The difficulty in acquiring said items could be used as a compensatory factor in determining the value of said stat boost. (If Mjolnir is an item in the game, which can be acquired through a certain amount of hours of play, anything beyond the point in which one is created could be considered balanced if the time involved in acquiring it is substantial enough)

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2 hours ago, Saegys said:

All of these headgears were made with the intention to sell them in cash shops, they have unique properties or stats that can't be obtained from other sources in the same slot. This is of course to incentivize people to spend money on the game.

This has the added result of devaluing all other headgears that could potentially occupy those slots.

Like why would you ever get an AoA if you could just buy a Ramen Hat instead?

These two points are the reason they're not on this server and will not be for the foreseeable future.

I'm going to argue your point for the lower headgears, at least.  Yes, things like Well-Chewed Pencil and Pirate Dagger would be best in slot, but there isn't any real competition for the lowers, and based on memory and looking through item DBs, there won't be, ever.

Non cash shop lowers worth mentioning:

Angry Snarl: 6 def (yes I know it's not currently available)

Gangster Mask: 15% silence resist

Iron Cain: 4 def

Pipe, Cigarette, Romantic Leaf: 3% damage reduction from their respective races

Romantic Flower: 5% reduction from plant

Oxygen Mask: 20% poison status resist

Adding multi-slot headgears:

Alarm Mask: 2 dex, 50% blind resist

Sphinx Hat: 5 def, +2 str

Welding Mask: 2 def, 10% reduction from fire attacks

Dark Bacilium: 5 def, increase resistance to freeze, stone curse, and stun by 20% and additional increase per upgrade (this one is the exception to my argument, but it's also an mvp drop from a very distant episode)

I believe adding Pirate Dagger, Well-Chewed Pencil, and Ninja Scroll (+1% matk, casters need all the help they can get) would add more options for the lower slot without adding anything that would upset balance, as current lower options are mostly cosmetic or garbage.

On a side note, looking through DBs made me realize just how many super strong cash shop headgears there are.

Edited by Dah_Nile

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2 hours ago, Sadie said:

I think the point he was trying to make here is that yes, generally they were made with the intention of selling them in the cash shop due to their unique properties (since they are quite a bit of pay to win in the instances of specific ones like the pencil and pirate dagger) [...] however, if you made them available as something you could get through an in-game achievement and not as an incentive to purchase them through the cash shop

Some like Pirate Dagger were originally available via in-game quests actually, that's how I got mine. Possibly via 4th Anniversary Quest in 2007. I never played Re:Start though, just iRO beta - present ('till EU block). Odd if they made it cash shop only there. :swt:

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Many of these headgears are best in slot for WoE. We're considering a system that allows these to be obtainable by quest for a limited period of time, and the item itself would have a rental period as well.

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