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Tyrant

MVP Drop Chance TOO LOW

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I talked to Trojal about this and he suggested i make a forum post.  I feel that the drop chance on mvp items is way too low for this server and they should be increased to ATLEAST the level of restart with VIP and bubble gum buff.

I noticed from the bit of mvping i did that basically no one bothers to on this server outside of trap hunters picking off a few very easy marks like SK that actually drop something useful at a high rate (OPB).  Most bosses are roaming around not even killed and there is 0 competition.  I explained to trojal that the amount of zeny/effort you have to put into mvping now is not worth it because of the horrible drop chance and what little zeny is in the economy is not enough to make selling it worth it when something finally does drop.

I MVP on a monk where it costs me quite a bit to kill a boss.  Weaker bosses such as moonie/phreeoni/garm can take anywhere from 2 to 4 gfists to kill and harder ones could take up to 16 gfists if im solo and half that with a priest.  Currently blue potions cost 9k each, takes 5 or 6 per gfist depending on if monsters are pestering me in between or not.  So roughly 54k zeny per gfist.  On restart when you go gfist these weaker mvps it typically takes 1 gfist because of obvious gear differences but lets say it takes 2 like it does for a monk on here without lex.  Generally an elu drops which covers the SP costs and you don't go poor just by killing them OR something actually drops you can sell and make profit.  On this server with these drop rates and the limited sp recovery items(because of the low population) combined with the fact that when something finally does drop it's not worth much because of people not having much zeny makes MVPing not worth it on this server.  Out of the MVPs i have killed with my friend we have seen a few elu drop and heroic emblems.  Otherwise absolutely nothing has dropped and all MVPing has accomplished is wasting a bunch of my zeny and our time.

I know someone is going to say it's because you're a monk or ohh it doesn't cost me anything to do stormy as a trapper or whatever.  I already covered you trappers above, you do stormy because it costs you literally a couple thousand in traps and it's all profit with no expenses and stormy happens to drop OPBs at a high chance.  For other classes its very expensive, even if its a knight or crusader trying to MVP.  The amount they spend in healing/sp items will far outweigh anything they currently make.

To further make my point i told trojal about the awful drop rate and that someone complained to me about tiger footskins not dropping, that the guy killed it nearly 50 times himself and didn't get any.  I expected this story to be exaggeration but trojal showed me how many times eddga has been killed and that one solo person was responsible for 49 of the 200-250 kills(only glanced at numbers before he decided to delete it) themself.  He then said he wouldn't tell me how many footskins were on the server but then proceeded to tell me that it ended up being eddga dropping it 1% of the time out of all the kills so far, which obviously says after 200+ kills there is roughly 2 footskins in circulation.  This is utterly ridiculous that after 200+ kills a supposed 5% drop item has only dropped twice.  I get how it works that killing it 20 times doesn't mean you're guaranteed one because OMGGG its 5% but this is just a pathetic number.  I can only imagine that other items like bazerald from pharoh n such literally just don't exist on here since something from a much easier to kill boss with well over 20 times the drop rate has dropped twice this entire time.  Which basically means that when you go MVPing on this server for the most part you can expect to spend alot of zeny on potions and you can maybe get an elu or a token used to make some helm and literally accomplish nothing but losing zeny.

I feel that with how low the population is/the lack of restorative items is making it so expensive for anything other than trappers that its simply not worth doing at all.  I am sure i will have people argue with me about this that basically haven't bothered to mvp at all or killed one boss once n got lucky or blah blah but the fact that virtually every boss is up at most times just roaming around kind of spells it out for you that its not worth doing.  Killing a boss 50 times at a cost of 150k+ zeny per kill and still not even getting a 5% drop should not be a possibility and thats exactly what its like here right now.

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18 hours ago, Tyrant said:

I MVP on a monk where it costs me quite a bit to kill a boss.  Weaker bosses such as moonie/phreeoni/garm can take anywhere from 2 to 4 gfists to kill and harder ones could take up to 16 gfists if im solo and half that with a priest.  

Rewarding sub optimal, under leveled, under geared play is never the correct choice for the long term stability and health of any server.  You have to look far into the future when you consider massive changes such as this one.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, teh_Pope said:

Rewarding sub optimal, under leveled, under geared play is never the correct choice for the long term stability and health of any server.  You have to look far into the future when you consider massive changes such as this one.

But rewarding hunters for dropping 6 traps at SK is fine and most of the mvps should just be useless and income should be purely based around lucky card drops while lvling?  This isn't some mob that you can just endlessly farm.  You have limited chances a day at loot from them and they cost alot to kill as well.  The drop chance provided by VIP/Gum worked fine on restart, why are we making sure this server is the most punishing experience possible? 

My monk can 1 shot moonie with a lex, it does not get better than that for monks, you can't 1 shot without lex until you're a champ unless using god items.  What exactly is going to improve so much about that situation that people shouldnt be rewarded now?

Also you might want to consider the fact that unique logins are apparently down and this server has what 100 some players?  I don't think we should be pretending its a smashing success we should be trying to make it fun.  Waiting for trans again is not fun, not having gear  implemented that makes things viable is not fun, waiting just to make a gunslinger/tw/sl again is not fun and putting time and money into mvping to maybe get an elu 1 out of 10 kills is not fun either.

I feel your logic is backwards, it shouldn't be rewarding when you actually have to put alot into it, it should only be rewarding when everyones running around with alice valk shields, DR and god belts?  That makes 0 sense, now is the time that the boss should actually drop something useful.  You put 400k into a boss for nothing to drop 9 times out of 10 aside from maybe an elu and you think ohh lets wait until it only costs the people 50k and they are 1 shoting bosses then it's fine for it to drop stuff and "reward" people when it doesn't really matter.

I would hate to see your logic applied in other scenarios.  Ohh you're starving because all the animals you go out to hunt are rotten and provide nothing, well we aren't going to give you food until you build your own farm and raise your own animals, then we will give you food when you no longer actually need it lol.

Edited by Tyrant

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RO servers these days don't last too long, this is a product of many different factors. But the most important one is that players get bored of playing if they accomplish their goals in the game. For most of the players these goals are getting to max level and gearing up.

A good example of a server not understanding this is iRO RE:Start. Leveling was insanely fast due to the cash shop items. MVPing was easy for the exact same reason. Getting high upgraded gear was a breeze because of the Enriched/HD Ores. People quickly ran out of stuff to do.

The gearing up part is where the MVP loot comes in. We looked at the stronger MVPs like Randgris/Beelzebub/Bio/Satan Morroc at first and decided that their drop rates were a bit too high if we just gave them the standard 3x drop rate that we have. A lot of the gear they drop are chase luxury items and are supposed to be very rare.

After that we discussed the MVPs that you're talking about, the easier ones like Garm/Phreeoni/Eddga and so on. We thought about going 3x for them at first but decided against this for the following reasons:

  • Weapons from MVPs in Revo-Classic are way better than they were in Pre-Renewal due to the attack/matk changes, so these drops automatically became more valuable. Look at Dark Lord with Grimtooth and Evil Bone Wand for example.
  • Stuff takes longer to farm, people will play for longer and gear up slower.
  • We didn't want to make an elaborate list of MVP drops that we kept 1x specifically, we didn't want too many exceptions to the general rule.

The best option in our opinion was to make all of the MVPs 1x.

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Posted (edited)

See the problem is you didn't consider what's fun for the players. Most of us just came from restart after 6+ months of busting our asses, 6+ months of waiting for trans/gs/tk n so on. You're too worried about dragging it out for the actual player because you think this will prolong the life of your server. 

The only thing your approach has done for me is make want to not put any effort in here. Me and a friend were all excited to mvp here. I lvled a monk to 95, bought a phen/sohee so on. My friend lvled a priest to 90+ and we went mvping. We came out of it with a few Elu and alot of zeny spent on sp items. This was not enjoyable and quite frankly I'm already playing titan less n restart more as a result of it. 

Lvling on restart outside the exp helms is basically the same as on here. I was getting 25mil exp an hour at Medusa the other day. That's what a juperos party provided and it was nerfed. 

As for randris n such... No one will be killing that here for a very very very long time if ever since there aren't res tokens. If people do manage to kill it they deserve loot.... Not a carrot to keep chasing with no actual reward like it is now. 

You mentioned dark lord weapons, what is wrong with them dropping at a 16% and 6% chance? Is the alternative of no one bothering to even kill it better?  Aside from yet again trap hunters pulling shit this boss isn't killed. 

Stuff taking longer to farm does not keep players around longer unless you're talking extreme cases like oh you load in as a novice and there's a vendor there handing you god items. There is always something to work towards in this game and thinking ohh if we drag out them getting items beyond basic npc gear they will play longer is dumb. People's time needs to be respected and rewarded. The current setup does neither, it is as you said a cheap way of trying to drag out how long your server lasts and it's wrong. You think anyone wants to wait month for trans again? We just waited for this crap on restart quit making things crappy for us to try to cuckold us into wasting more time here. 

What elaborate list would be needed? Make the drops 2x or whatever , then when the harder bosses with higher drop rates are added lower them individually as you patch them in and let @mobinfo do the rest. 

I don't understand the logic here. You allow trap hunters to be the new cheap thing n didn't tone down trap dmg at all. You nerf bowling bash because OMG best sp spender aoe while hunters run around with traps doing half as much as a gfist. You setup a system that biochems will have unlimited potions to whore people with in woe but turn around n say making people farm n work will keep them here longer.... Yet the most op job in the game that destroys mvps and lvling can effectively do both while literally naked gear wise. Why are other classes like knights trashed and everyone else is supposed to have full mvp sets before being able to effectively farm anything but trap hunters can solo mvps with 0 gear equipped? 

Edited by Tyrant

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Everyone just needs to stop comparing this to Restart; this server is its own thing. Where people played before and how long they waited for x content there is completely irrelevant.

To me it mostly sounds like you personally aren't having fun - so go play somewhere where you do have fun instead, no one's forcing you to play here.

(additionally,  the staff disagrees with about 90% of the decisions Restart made, so keep that in mind.)

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gonna add in my thoughts on drop rates across the board for the server and how I feel after seeing our low player population and more.

 

MVP drop rates, first off, are fine. MVP items should be rare and valuable. A lot of the drops from even shitty MVPs right now are actually really desire-able as a result. Think of stuff like Spectral Spear, or Light Epsilon. If its mass farmed and theres a shit ton of them, instantly less valuable. You can already see it on the server with Stormy Knight dead on cool down. There are so many Zephyrus, despite the fact that everyone knows it is THE best spear (when socket enchant comes out) no one is paying a lot for it. You say you spend a lot on your monk just to get nothing, and I say welcome to MVP-ing. on restart we would spend a shit ton MVP-ing and often walk away with nothing. Even after a full day of getting mvps on cooldown and winning most of them vs competition. Not being properly geared also lowers the value of your blue pots. Your fist just isn't doing enough dmg. If you truly camp an MVP even for a few days you will get their drop eventually. I've already gotten tons of decent stuff from MVPs and so has my other guildy who MVPs often. I get two or three in a day sometimes. You just have to be persistent. 

 

As for Trappers being an issue, that I DO agree with. Their cost efficiency and strength relative to a monk is too high in MVPing and even in solo farming they are simply too good. They have needed nerfs for a long time and no one is saying anything. We nerf bowling bash for being too good, but let trappers do 20-30k with a 75z trap that's spammable and costs almost no sp? I mean its a joke. I've seen my own guildy killing Stormy Knight in less than 10 seconds without effort. Monks require so much investment in time, builds, and consumables, but vs a good trapper on specific mvps they are far weaker. That's not to say monks are bad, with a good priest they can still shine and on some mvps they are just straight up better, but trappers are overall just too strong for the lack of investment you need.  You can use two npc items (arbalest/tights) with no cards or gear and you will be fine. you will still deal a shit ton of damage. And that goes against everything RO is about for me. Investment of time and playing the game. If a player can kill mvps without investment, what's the point. That's boring and it shouldn't be a thing. 

 

For regular drops, the rates are too low. I'll say it. Not for me, I'm fine with it. But I also have no life. So I'm an exception. The majority of the players who play on this server do have lives. They have families, jobs, etc. And I think having to spend 20+ hours to get 1 card occasionally is just unhealthy for our server. It stagnates the market. Sure it rewards dedicated players who have the time and that DOES seem good. But, really, people are going to get discouraged if it takes multiple days of hard camping to get 1 card or rare drop for a farm-able monster. And before you all reply with "Well that's RO that's how its always been". Believe me, I know. I'm just as much of a purist as the rest of you who think like that. I want low rates, and I love low rates, but the majority of players are discouraged by too low of rates when the population is this low. We need stuff to hit the market, stuff to spend zeny on, etc. Right now, if you get a rare drop you keep it. Because why the fuck wouldn't you. You are farming it to keep it. Our population is way too low to keep 3x drop rates I feel. Origins does 5x and they have a stable market where decent stuff does hit the market. I personally think we can go AT LEAST that and still be low enough rates to be ok. No higher though I feel as the spotlight maps would be insane if we got the rates too high. And the spotlight feature is one of the best parts of our server spreading us out all over. 

 

TLDR is that I think MVP drop rates are fine and you just have to be dedicated, yes trappers are broken and need nerfs to their efficiency, and regular drops could also use a decent buff to help the server economy and encourage the less hardcore players to stick around. 

 

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Trap Hunters aren't an issue. They're great at solo killing a couple of MVPs if there is no competition. As soon as any other class shows up you straight up lose unless that person is an extremely bad player.

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12 minutes ago, Stephcake said:

Everyone just needs to stop comparing this to Restart; this server is its own thing. Where people played before and how long they waited for x content there is completely irrelevant.

To me it mostly sounds like you personally aren't having fun - so go play somewhere where you do have fun instead, no one's forcing you to play here.

Then compare it to renewal i don't really care what you compare it to the point is on re:start the drop rates worked for mvping.  You weren't guaranteed anything good but the bosses alteast dropped elu n such to give you something and i can assure you there werent 2 tiger footskins from 200 kills of eddga there either.  People actually had a reason to kill eddga, you might notice someone devoted 49 kills to that thing and didin't even get any footskins, you call this good design and fun?  That guy probably said screw this n quit.

4 minutes ago, Charlie Loves U said:

gonna add in my thoughts on drop rates across the board for the server and how I feel after seeing our low player population and more.

 

MVP drop rates, first off, are fine. MVP items should be rare and valuable. A lot of the drops from even shitty MVPs right now are actually really desire-able as a result. Think of stuff like Spectral Spear, or Light Epsilon. If its mass farmed and theres a shit ton of them, instantly less valuable. You can already see it on the server with Stormy Knight dead on cool down. There are so many Zephyrus, despite the fact that everyone knows it is THE best spear (when socket enchant comes out) no one is paying a lot for it. You say you spend a lot on your monk just to get nothing, and I say welcome to MVP-ing. on restart we would spend a shit ton MVP-ing and often walk away with nothing. Even after a full day of getting mvps on cooldown and winning most of them vs competition. Not being properly geared also lowers the value of your blue pots. Your fist just isn't doing enough dmg. If you truly camp an MVP even for a few days you will get their drop eventually. I've already gotten tons of decent stuff from MVPs and so has my other guildy who MVPs often. I get two or three in a day sometimes. You just have to be persistent. 

 

As for Trappers being an issue, that I DO agree with. Their cost efficiency and strength relative to a monk is too high in MVPing and even in solo farming they are simply too good. They have needed nerfs for a long time and no one is saying anything. We nerf bowling bash for being too good, but let trappers do 20-30k with a 75z trap that's spammable and costs almost no sp? I mean its a joke. I've seen my own guildy killing Stormy Knight in less than 10 seconds without effort. Monks require so much investment in time, builds, and consumables, but vs a good trapper on specific mvps they are far weaker. That's not to say monks are bad, with a good priest they can still shine and on some mvps they are just straight up better, but trappers are overall just too strong for the lack of investment you need.  You can use two npc items (arbalest/tights) with no cards or gear and you will be fine. you will still deal a shit ton of damage. And that goes against everything RO is about for me. Investment of time and playing the game. If a player can kill mvps without investment, what's the point. That's boring and it shouldn't be a thing. 

 

For regular drops, the rates are too low. I'll say it. Not for me, I'm fine with it. But I also have no life. So I'm an exception. The majority of the players who play on this server do have lives. They have families, jobs, etc. And I think having to spend 20+ hours to get 1 card occasionally is just unhealthy for our server. It stagnates the market. Sure it rewards dedicated players who have the time and that DOES seem good. But, really, people are going to get discouraged if it takes multiple days of hard camping to get 1 card or rare drop for a farm-able monster. And before you all reply with "Well that's RO that's how its always been". Believe me, I know. I'm just as much of a purist as the rest of you who think like that. I want low rates, and I love low rates, but the majority of players are discouraged by too low of rates when the population is this low. We need stuff to hit the market, stuff to spend zeny on, etc. Right now, if you get a rare drop you keep it. Because why the fuck wouldn't you. You are farming it to keep it. Our population is way too low to keep 3x drop rates I feel. Origins does 5x and they have a stable market where decent stuff does hit the market. I personally think we can go AT LEAST that and still be low enough rates to be ok. No higher though I feel as the spotlight maps would be insane if we got the rates too high. And the spotlight feature is one of the best parts of our server spreading us out all over. 

 

TLDR is that I think MVP drop rates are fine and you just have to be dedicated, yes trappers are broken and need nerfs to their efficiency, and regular drops could also use a decent buff to help the server economy and encourage the less hardcore players to stick around. 

 

Making the mvp items double the drop chance still leaves them valuable and rare.  A bazerald for instance is what drop rate, doubling that doesn't even really register and it's still not really going to drop here.  Doubling orc hero makes light epsilon what 3%?  It doesn't really do much in the way of making weapons drop more what it does do is make sure you get something from it.  It might be just an ori/elu or w/e but you get SOMETHING for your time n resources.

Yep trappers are beyond broken n stupid yet they are allowed and bowling bash gets neutered even though this server doesn't yield enough sp items to make BB be a legit thing anyways.  Even worse yet is there isn't a socketing NPC(because waiting n dragging out content people waited for a dozen times already is fun!!!) so monks can't even make a slotted stunner to do reasonable damage.

I also agree on normal drops too.  You either are someone whos extremely lucky that goes n kills 10 mobs, gets a card n end up rich because RNG was on your side or you're someone that as you said spends an entire day there and a card doesn't drop and you say screw this im done.  Let's be honest here, this isn't some official server that we atleast know our time invested will be there waiting if we take a break or w/e.  This server may be dead 6 months from now and we are expected to farm entire days worth of time for some card?  The population here is just too bad to expect this from people.

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5 minutes ago, Saegys said:

Trap Hunters aren't an issue. They're great at solo killing a couple of MVPs if there is no competition. As soon as any other class shows up you straight up lose unless that person is an extremely bad player.

What?  Why is it fine to tell people they shouldn't be MVPing on other classes because they didn't put enough farming in but someone playing a naked trap hunter should have free reign over an mvp that consistently drops OPBs and also drops zeph/ring/ice katar/light epsilon n so on?  I guess working your way up doing 20 hour shitty card grinds is only meant for non trap hunters.  If you're a trap hunter its jump right in, spend 1200zeny get handed millions of zeny.

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Renewal has the exact same mvp drop rates as us.

VIP/gum is only meant as a way to make people spend money (which, incidentally, we're not doing).

You can rant however much you want, but this isn't getting changed.

Edit: Locked until Trojal wakes up.

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Farm your own SP items at multiplied rates. Royal Jelly and Honey drop at nasty rates during spotlights for Gonryun and Ant hell.

Gear your monk better so your fists deal more damage. Get better weapons so that your damage doesn't blow chunks. If you're complaining that Trap hunters deal too much damage and that no one beats them at anything, why don't you actually play one yourself instead of droning on endlessly about how overpowered and cheap they are?

As far as MVP drops are concerned, If there are less of a thing on a server inherently that thing you're getting is more valuable in the long run, essentially what you're asking for is that the things you eventually find be worth less because now they drop like candy from a christmas cookie. Would you rather the light epsilon you eventually get be worth 6mil when it drops, or 3mil? This is a common sense thing.

The less of a thing there are the more valuable that thing will be when you find it and the more you can profit off of the system in the long run. The inverse would be that twice as often people would be finding the item, which would mean there would be twice as many of an item available for sale, which would cause the item to decrease in price by at least half.

 

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Let's try to keep this on the topic of overall boss monster drop rate, and leave class balance to another discussion. Regardless of if we have solo hunters, solo monks, monk + priest duos, champion + high priest duos, parties with mental strength tank in safety wall and champion asura'ing with professor support...

Are there others with thoughts on whether the default drop rate for MVPs is too low, or in a good spot?

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8 hours ago, Stephcake said:

Renewal has the exact same mvp drop rates as us.

VIP/gum is only meant as a way to make people spend money (which, incidentally, we're not doing).

You can rant however much you want, but this isn't getting changed.

Edit: Locked until Trojal wakes up.

Of course those things were meant to make people spend money but it doesn't change the fact that anyone that mvpd seriously had that drop rate.  No one is asking for gum or vip so i'm not sure why you throw that comment out like it matters.  You think the ultimate defense against anything that works on restart is OMGGG they made it pay2win.  We are discussing drop rates not the way of the drop rates occurred.  I did tons of mvping on restart with vip and gum, you could still easily go multiple kills without something other than elu dropping.  It wasn't some ridiculous chance that you were guaranteed loot.

As for your crappy attitude of ohh rant as much as you want it isn't getting changed.  You might want to drop the attitude and realize this server barely has 100 people playing most of the time.  Origin has 3x on MVPs and 5x on normal mobs and they have 7 times your population and have/will obviously last longer than this server if something doesn't change.  You think you coming in with that crappy attitude as a moderator saying ohh complain as much as you want it's not getting a change when the topic is something the actual GM suggested me to make in the first place is a good thing and makes people want to devote time here?  Devoting time where a reasonable suggestion that virtually every other server does is insulted and locked is quite stupid.

Now does anyone have any input that is not a trap hunter(yes i said trap hunters OP don't blow a gasket crying/locking the thread, we all know its true) abusing a couple mvps that thinks the system is just perfect because you're the only ones making money from mvping.  I am not sure if theres actual people with experience other than this because like i said the other mvps are roaming around untouched every time i go to check on them.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Saegys said:

Trap Hunters aren't an issue. They're great at solo killing a couple of MVPs if there is no competition. As soon as any other class shows up you straight up lose unless that person is an extremely bad player.

OMEGALUL. bowling bash needs TWENTY percent dmg nerf but trappers doing 20-30k is NOT an issue. 

 

and on topic i suppose. I stand by that I think MVP drops are fine. There IS an argument to raise the drop rate by about .5-1x  on weaker mvps with lower drop rates. (doppelganger, maya, phreeoni, etc.) I think mvp drop rates are great if we had people constantly killing them, but we don't. For most people it's just not worth on this server. Unless you are a trapper because they require NO INVESTMENT. Monks i can go through hundreds of ranked blues in a day as well as whites just MVPing. Don't forget there are often other mobs to deal with on a map that are cancer, etc. Sure you can "bring a party" to clear those and make your MVPing more efficient, but we have sub 200 players. Not everyone is gonna have a great MVP party set up and what makes Asura monks fun is MVPing. We should be able to solo and its somewhat worth it. I've even given up on some MVPs because they straight up aren't worth the cost investment in consumables alone. The argument is there, but I"m fine with it as it is. I also wouldn't mind the drop rates being increased either if it brings in more players and makes MVPing more competitive. Right now its just been me and I occasionally compete with Anomaly for an MVP. No one else is there to be honest. And that IS because its not worth it most of the time, cost wise. 

Edited by Charlie Loves U

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Yeee i quit mvp due to cost being way too high vs reward. 

Was doing OL by teleporting to Inn for sp, walk out to east geff and warp back repeat lol desperate times.

 

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Monk isn't the only class that can MVP. In fact, it's usually one of the least cost efficient killers (if you're spamming SP items)

You're making a choice to play monk AND buy/use blue potions to kill MVPs with a few fists. You could use the Inn, marry yourself/give SP, sit down between fists, or Absorb off a monster on the map. Instead you choose to use a lot of consumables to go faster, and now you're complaining about being profitable?

Trapper still takes 30+ traps sometimes to kill an MVP and this means being in combat with the MVP for much longer than a couple fists (way more time/opportunities  to fuck up). On mobby maps, other monsters can easily get in the way and slow this process down further. I'm not trying to justify trapper damage (I also strongly advocate that they do way too much damage) but I will say there is still a lot of finesse trapping some MVPs and you'd be surprised if you think trapping is completely braindead. Wiz can also kill a lot of MVPs for free but it will take a while. But they usually have the cleanest experience MVPing because they can kite most MVPs with quag and they deal AOE damage that helps with any excess shit around the MVP that single target killers have to deal with. Don't complain that you're spending too much when you choose to play monk in the most expensive way. There's a reason monks usually beat comp on MVPs because they can spend a lot to kill it faster. I can't spam consumables on my wiz to go any faster; neither can a trapper.

 

On the topic of Footskins from Eddga I have 8 myself so even if I'm the only person on the server with them (which I highly doubt) there's way more than 2. Eddga has a 2.5% drop from dying and another skin can drop from MVP @ 3.5%. You don't need Trojal to figure this out.

 

Also, please don't ever mention costs if you're MVPing solo. MVPs are the hardest things in the game to kill currently, and you expect it to be easy/profitable while doing solo? This game is an MMO for a reason, maybe spend less time complaining and more time making friends.

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42 minutes ago, snow said:

Monk isn't the only class that can MVP. In fact, it's usually one of the least cost efficient killers (if you're spamming SP items)

You're making a choice to play monk AND buy/use blue potions to kill MVPs with a few fists. You could use the Inn, marry yourself/give SP, sit down between fists, or Absorb off a monster on the map. Instead you choose to use a lot of consumables to go faster, and now you're complaining about being profitable?

Trapper still takes 30+ traps sometimes to kill an MVP and this means being in combat with the MVP for much longer than a couple fists (way more time/opportunities  to fuck up). On mobby maps, other monsters can easily get in the way and slow this process down further. I'm not trying to justify trapper damage (I also strongly advocate that they do way too much damage) but I will say there is still a lot of finesse trapping some MVPs and you'd be surprised if you think trapping is completely braindead. Wiz can also kill a lot of MVPs for free but it will take a while. But they usually have the cleanest experience MVPing because they can kite most MVPs with quag and they deal AOE damage that helps with any excess shit around the MVP that single target killers have to deal with. Don't complain that you're spending too much when you choose to play monk in the most expensive way. There's a reason monks usually beat comp on MVPs because they can spend a lot to kill it faster. I can't spam consumables on my wiz to go any faster; neither can a trapper.

 

On the topic of Footskins from Eddga I have 8 myself so even if I'm the only person on the server with them (which I highly doubt) there's way more than 2. Eddga has a 2.5% drop from dying and another skin can drop from MVP @ 3.5%. You don't need Trojal to figure this out.

 

Also, please don't ever mention costs if you're MVPing solo. MVPs are the hardest things in the game to kill currently, and you expect it to be easy/profitable while doing solo? This game is an MMO for a reason, maybe spend less time complaining and more time making friends.

No one said it was the only class, not getting the point of this comment? 

I wish every mvp map had monsters to absorb sp from that were viable or that the maps are safe enough to dual box n feed myself sp with marriage spells. I also wish regen wasnt disabled during fury n after gfist for 5 minutes which ensures potions are being used to accomplish really anything. 

LOL what? Ohh the poor trapper 30 traps at what 60z each. I also have a trap hunter and I can tell you it takes a hell of alot less time to dump 30 traps into a boss than it does it play the gfist, bwing, inn keeper, warp portal dance game. I can easily put 30 into a boss before a monk would be back to do his 2nd gfist. This is ignoring the fact that on some bosses 3 traps > 1 gfist. Oh and you also don't seem to be aware that you can't even memo most of the mvp maps. So the whole inn keeper strat takes longer than normal. 

I don't care about your tiger footskins either, all are probably from the mvp reward and we were discussing actual drop chances. Virtually none of the mvps have anything to be happy about as mvp rewards. 

Yep "hardest" monsters smited by some hunter spending 600zeny and never being touched to require healing pots either. 

This server literally went out of its way to ruin what usually works for tasks aside from trap hunters which I find to be odd. Oh you want to monk mvp? Enjoy no sp recovery during fury and enjoy no memo on maps you can do on official oh and enjoy no slotted stunners for God knows how long. You want to play a knight enjoy 20% less bowling bash dmg because it's supposedly op on a server that barely has sp items for sell the majority of the time(outside of certain spotlights). If you want to play a trap hunter enjoy monopolizing mvps with minimal effort. Get an mvps attention and literally walk trap walk trap a half a dozen times and enjoy your free loot and enjoy doing half of a gfists dmg in one single trap that costs nothing and requires 0 gear. Oh and the topic of gear. It's oh no one should be mvping to make money since we all have crap gear. A naked hunter 7 shotting stormy with traps is fine though lol. 

Now if you babies can quit your crying about actual classes let's stay on topic. 

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I didn’t really address your topic because there’s nothing worth discussing. This is just a complaint thread that a bad player is struggling to make money while spamming consumables on MVPs. What a shocker. The rest of us making money from MVPs (playing monk) don’t need to make threads because we’re just playing the game and being smart. If you had made a thread asking for advice because you were struggling, people would be a lot less apprehensive, and I might have showed you a few tips. But instead, you think the system is heavily flawed because YOU are struggling. It’s hard to have a decent conversation about game balance when you clearly know so little about this game. 

If you actually believe this server “literally went out of its way to ruin” things then this probably isn’t the server for you. You seem to be pretty fond of the rates/population on Origins though.

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2 hours ago, snow said:

I didn’t really address your topic because there’s nothing worth discussing. This is just a complaint thread that a bad player is struggling to make money while spamming consumables on MVPs. What a shocker. The rest of us making money from MVPs (playing monk) don’t need to make threads because we’re just playing the game and being smart. If you had made a thread asking for advice because you were struggling, people would be a lot less apprehensive, and I might have showed you a few tips. But instead, you think the system is heavily flawed because YOU are struggling. It’s hard to have a decent conversation about game balance when you clearly know so little about this game. 

If you actually believe this server “literally went out of its way to ruin” things then this probably isn’t the server for you. You seem to be pretty fond of the rates/population on Origins though.

Lol i am going to go ahead n guess you mainly play a trap hunter(even though you claim monk) since you so adamantly defended their 25k traps claiming a monk abusing the inn is faster than it.  This is a private server with 100 players that has a lower drop chance than official servers on bosses.  That is the point of this thread, they are purposely doing things in an attempt to drag out the life of this server and this is one of the major things.

You can attempt to paint it as ohh you are struggling me and my 5 friends manage to kill phreeoni without using SP items we are l33t all you want.  It doesn't change the fact that MVPs are roaming around not killed and not contested because it is absolutely awful on this server.  The general philosophy on here is ohh you shouldnt be mvping alone, ohh you shouldnt be using sp items, you shouldn't be playing a BB knight period(20% BB dmg nerf LOLOLOL and traps untouched) and ohh you shouldnt be doing it until you no life the game for 2 months to collect all your cards/armor.  UNLESS you're a trap hunter then you receive no nerfs and it is just expected/allowed to run around soloing mvps naked doing 25k+ dmg a trap.  This shit flys with trap hunters because as i said they require nothing, they spend nothing so when they get nothing for 10 kills in a row and then something finally drops on the 11th it is all profit. 

Sure if you run around with a group and are married you can kill bosses without spending any SP items or zeny, not everyone wants to do that and being forced to do that because the admins want to make everything an even more awful grind than RO usually is just to attempt to drag out the servers life span is stupid.  Anyone saying otherwise is clueless, idiotic, plays a trap hunter or is a little kid that's probably home schooled n parks on RO 18 hours a day.  The general audience for this game now is actual adults and it's something that wasn't considered when choosing these drops rates.  Charlie had enough sense to admit these drop rates work for him simply because he has no life.  Instead of doing the same you guys want to pretend you aren't losers and that omg drop rates are great tyrant is bad or w/e.

As for origins, did you ever stop n think why certain guilds chose to go there instead of this server and we are sitting here with a pitiful 100(was actually 80 people online when i made this thread) person population?  Ever wonder why you see people quitting daily giving their gear away in #main or just trading it to people and our unique logins are down down down?  It's stupid shit like this, we just waited months for trans and classes on restart, now we are waiting months again, waiting months to get slotted stunners, being punished by this awful drop chance on mvping/loot in general because ohh it drags it out and makes the server last longer.

I will spell it out for these dunces yet again, what keeps a server alive is it being fun, not making the grind more obnoxious.

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While I personally would also love higher MvP droprates (except cards obviously). I think this discussion has derailed. I've read through it all and its people calling eachother names and getting totally not relevant (to this topic) things into it. If you want to discuss trap hunters, make a new thread. If you want to discuss monks having SP during fury, please say so in thay thread. Can we please stay civil and have an actual discussion about why we should or shouldnt increase droprates? We're all above the age of 12 and are capable of beign polite. Please act like it.

And on a side note. You're complaining about solo killing MvP's. I'm a supportive class (bard) thats basicly never asked to MvP because monks and trappers can solo them. :(

Back to the topic: I'd love slightly higher drop rates so I'd be able to more casually 'keep up' with others. TheIts (for me) also pretty discouraging killing MvPs and getting basicly nothing. The rates are however (probably) set in stone and wont change.

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3 hours ago, Lapaco said:

While I personally would also love higher MvP droprates (except cards obviously). I think this discussion has derailed. I've read through it all and its people calling eachother names and getting totally not relevant (to this topic) things into it. If you want to discuss trap hunters, make a new thread. If you want to discuss monks having SP during fury, please say so in thay thread. Can we please stay civil and have an actual discussion about why we should or shouldnt increase droprates? We're all above the age of 12 and are capable of beign polite. Please act like it.

And on a side note. You're complaining about solo killing MvP's. I'm a supportive class (bard) thats basicly never asked to MvP because monks and trappers can solo them. :(

Back to the topic: I'd love slightly higher drop rates so I'd be able to more casually 'keep up' with others. TheIts (for me) also pretty discouraging killing MvPs and getting basicly nothing. The rates are however (probably) set in stone and wont change.

The problem is its hard to point out why drops need to be higher because the complaint is effort vs reward. I try to point out how it's different/worse than official servers and people attack saying it's fine because trap hunters have 9 zephyrus or whatever. 

Trust me be glad you haven't solo mvpd, it's costed me alot of zeny and I've gotten a few Elu from all the trouble lol. I understand your complaint though. 

Yeah that's what makes me not want to devote time to this server. The only way to get ahead is no life farming cards since mvping yields barely anything compared to other servers. 

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Posted (edited)

 

On 7/11/2018 at 9:03 PM, Lapaco said:

While I personally would also love higher MvP droprates (except cards obviously). I think this discussion has derailed. I've read through it all and its people calling eachother names and getting totally not relevant (to this topic) things into it. If you want to discuss trap hunters, make a new thread. If you want to discuss monks having SP during fury, please say so in thay thread. Can we please stay civil and have an actual discussion about why we should or shouldnt increase droprates? We're all above the age of 12 and are capable of beign polite. Please act like it.

And on a side note. You're complaining about solo killing MvP's. I'm a supportive class (bard) thats basicly never asked to MvP because monks and trappers can solo them. :(

Back to the topic: I'd love slightly higher drop rates so I'd be able to more casually 'keep up' with others. TheIts (for me) also pretty discouraging killing MvPs and getting basicly nothing. The rates are however (probably) set in stone and wont change.

i agree with that initial sentiment a lot and feel it happens on most discussions. Not going to name anyone specific because there isn't anyone to call out, but in general we have a bunch of biased opinions vs biased opinions. We don't have true discussions about balance here, its just bias through and through. You have people who see them game through a purist stand point and think the game is essentially fine as long as it is as close to the OG ragnarok as possible, and then you have people who have played on official servers of recent who like the luxuries/benefits that come with that. 

 

The problem I see more than anything to be honest. I 'd love to see more of a healthy back and forth rather than people being elitist and trying to prove each other wrong. I see a lot of people saying shit like "well you are doing things inefficiently, if you aren't bad then..." and that's honestly a horrible way to have a healthy discussion. 

 

I am no exception. I'm guilty of being an elitist purist at times myself, so don't think I exclude myself from that blame either. 

Edited by Charlie Loves U

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When a post begins with

"I feel that the drop chance on mvp items is way too low for this server and they should be increased to ATLEAST the level of restart with VIP and bubble gum buff." 

there is no basis for a healthy back and forth. This guy was just a p2w player who has no idea of how to properly manage resources and play the game. So what can we discuss? 

Restart was an abomination of a server, and your experiences there should have 0 impact on the way we discuss this server. The more detached everyone gets from their time on restart, the better the discussions and server will become. This is not restart 2.0. 

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23 minutes ago, snow said:

When a post begins with

"I feel that the drop chance on mvp items is way too low for this server and they should be increased to ATLEAST the level of restart with VIP and bubble gum buff." 

there is no basis for a healthy back and forth. This guy was just a p2w player who has no idea of how to properly manage resources and play the game. So what can we discuss? 

Restart was an abomination of a server, and your experiences there should have 0 impact on the way we discuss this server. The more detached everyone gets from their time on restart, the better the discussions and server will become. This is not restart 2.0. 

 

Let me just say you are really really biased towards official servers, when you really only look at them in a vacuum rather than seeing the bigger picture. That's the problem in the bias in our discussions. Players like yourself and pope will immediately dismiss any mention of peoples experience on any server with p2w features as it "isn't anything like our server". But in reality you just have to look at it from all angles. You don't even seem to fully grasp the concept of how bubblegum/vip works on officials either what you are saying.

 

Bubblegum is basically a standard for MVPing on official servers. It can be bought with ZENY from other players who use it as a pay to win feature (buy gum, sell to players, easy zeny). With how easy it is to get, it isn't an advantage or a pay to win feature in any way really. It becomes a must, and without it you get left in the dust vs other players. By all technicality its a buff and pay to win, but the reality was so much different. Any one with a brain used it because it was worth the investment. And that is all Tyrant is saying, buff the levels to that because he feels it would be good for the server. He also feels it wouldn't cause balance issues.

 

I'm honestly really tired of the dismissal of experiences on restart. Restart WAS an abomination. We ALL know that, but that does not discredit all of someone's experiences. I, myself, have had a few people mindlessly dismiss my opinions simply because they feel restart was that different from ragnarok. It's still Ragnarok Online. Restart is still very much the same, and far too often I see stuff dismissed JUST because it was pay to win.

 

You aren't wrong in that we aren't restart, and I don't think anyone is trying to make us JUST like restart, but that doesn't mean we can't take things from restart, or learn from it or other servers. You talk about how players have no skill or managing of resources, but he straight up says he doesn't want to no life the game. And that sentiment is a common theme amongst a lot of modern day RO players. There's a reason mid rate private servers thrive and low rates tend to struggle, Even origins was a small server until restart died. 

 

We need healthy discussion with actual arguments for why something would be or wouldn't be balanced. That does not mean "no you don't need it, there are ways to deal with it as is". That's not an argument. thats an opinion and offering a solution someone doesn't want. Let's talk about our view points and talk about why something could be good or not good for the game. That's not even something I'm seeing a lot of in this thread. Most people are just telling Tyrant he's inefficient and could be doing x, y, or z, but no one is actually talking about the effect that buffing MVP drop rate items WOULD have? 

 

I've seen this trend too much. We have no discussion really about anything. It's just "learn to adapt" rather than trying to find ways to improve the game or potentially make things more fun. As an RO purist, I understand the reluctance to make things easier, but the harder the game is, the less players we are going to have. The fact is, there are more casuals like Tyrant, then there are like me and you.

 

And quite frankly, I enjoy playing with people. Even if they aren't as hardcore about RO as I am. 

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