Gear/Non-Weapon Refine Needs a Buff

[Charlie Loves U 31]

With how painfully hard it is to refine armor without enriched (which isn't a bad thing), it should feel good to refine an armor. Worth it, rather. Currently, that is clearly not the case as in revo-classic/renewal you don't bother to refine your armor unless the gear has a requirement for it or there is a card that has a specific requirement you want to slot in it. 

And no, its not just the defense changes in renewal. DEF was nerfed hard across the board, but the def you get from items is still relevant. The difference between a full plate and a cloth armor for an (extreme) example is still relevant. So why isn't armor the same? Well, armor refine in renewal was balanced around the idea of people being able to reach their new limit of +20 instead of +10 that you see in pre-re. This means the bonuses had to be more spread out. 

Not only does +20 not exist here, it only exists on official servers as a pure cash grab to basically force players to buy HD elu/carnium/safe certs/enriched etc. Its a huge cash grab and little else. On servers without it, you basically don't even try to go past +12 even in renewal as its completely impractical with the success rates (8% each time past 10). 

For my last point, I want to say that armor refine not being relevant is BAD for the long term health of our server. Sure, the game functions balance wise with or without it, but without goals for higher refines for armor, that's one less time sink and a quicker amount of time people could get bored. To keep in theme with the goals of our server, I think its important to make every aspect of the game that encourages actually playing the game more relevant. And farming gear/breaking it, trying to reach a goal is one of, if not the biggest parts of the game. Weapon/Armor refine is one of the big aspects (besides cards) that separate Ragnarok from other MMOs. and it's lacking in Revo-Classic(and as such, this server)

 

I propose we just adjust the def bonus you get from refines to be scaled up to +10 instead of the bonuses you currently get which are scaled at a system where +20 armor is (potentially) a thing. I won't bother proposing exact numbers as I'm not into the math side of things, but I'm sure the staff with some time could figure out approriate numbers which would make armor refine feel relevant, but not break the game. 

 

Please answer the poll whether you agree or not!

[Saegys 11]

I used to have a similar train of thought like the one you described here. I actually spent quite a bit of time trying to spreadsheet improvements to the upgrade system.

In the end I did change my opinion on if it needs to be changed at all for the following reasons:

• DEF from upgrades in Classic was honestly too strong, it scaled way too well.
• Renewal shifted the focus to base armors mattering more than upgrades. The difference between a +7 Full Plate or +7 Silk Robe is way bigger now than it is in Classic. This makes the choice of armor way more relevant and makes it so that thematically more heavily armored classes end up with more defense.
• Since Renewal a lot more cards and gear scale with upgrade values, giving a reason beyond just DEF to upgrade your equipment.
• The rework of Assumptio is a big deal which I initially forgot too, but it DOUBLES hard DEF. Definitely something to keep in mind too.

In conclusion I don't really think that we need a change in upgrade values. There might be room for minor buffs to make upgrading more attractive but they're just that, minor.  

[Charlie Loves U 31]

47 minutes ago, Saegys said:

I used to have a similar train of thought like the one you described here. I actually spent quite a bit of time trying to spreadsheet improvements to the upgrade system.

In the end I did change my opinion on if it needs to be changed at all for the following reasons:

• DEF from upgrades in Classic was honestly too strong, it scaled way too well.
• Renewal shifted the focus to base armors mattering more than upgrades. The difference between a +7 Full Plate or +7 Silk Robe is way bigger now than it is in Classic. This makes the choice of armor way more relevant and makes it so that thematically more heavily armored classes end up with more defense.
• Since Renewal a lot more cards and gear scale with upgrade values, giving a reason beyond just DEF to upgrade your equipment.
• The rework of Assumptio is a big deal which I initially forgot too, but it DOUBLES hard DEF. Definitely something to keep in mind too.

In conclusion I don't really think that we need a change in upgrade values. There might be room for minor buffs to make upgrading more attractive but they're just that, minor.  

if it wasn't clear, I"m not suggesting we make the values as insane as classic where DEF in general was broken. back in classic its way too easy to get high defense numbers over all. I'm suggesting more minor changes that make them relevant. because in their current state they are completely irrelevant. the difference between a +7 full plate or robe only is big becaues of the base defense. you wouldn't +7 either because you don't care. you would leave them at +4. It's not even worth breaking armor on here. and that was my point. just make it worth it to refine. right now its really not. 

and we aren't in renewal where more gear requires upgrade values. we may never even reach renewal as a lot of people just don't like it. there's definitley more than a little room for some buffs. its an aspect of the game basically not being used right now. 

[Trojal 94]

For now we're not looking at updating the refine system, but I would like to look at cards that affect DEF, because they have the same values as they've had in pre-renewal mechanics, which is outpaced by revo-classic DEF values.