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Trojal

Stat reset pros/cons

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Stat resets. Yay? Ugh? Providing stat resets makes it easier to level those leech-dependent characters like pure forgers/brewers... but is that a good thing or a bad thing?

I'm leaning towards one of two options:

  1. Limited stat resets per character (something like 3 resets per character)
  2. Limited stat resets per amount of time (one reset per 2 weeks)

What are your thoughts?

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stat resets over time similar to restart would work although maybe a bit more forgiving than that as IIRC they were 5 stat points each tiem per week with each one alternating to be free.

 

could also implement a very expensive stat reset version of the neuralizer on restart. (neuralizer resets all skill points). 

 

Personally I think it goes against the whole principle of why its supposed to be difficult to level a pure forger/brewer. With exp rates 3-5 and restart style mechanics it will not be hard at all to leech a character. if anything it will be easier since the rates will indeed be higher. 

 

there are gimmicky options like giving exp for successfully forging, brewing, etc, but I think the system thats been in place for awhile is fine. maybe each charcter gets 3 free stat resets of 5 points each time and from there on they gotta pay silvervine. so each character can remove up to 15 stat points and reuse the status points. 

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I agree with the above. I think stat resets are good so long as they are limited. Making a leech dependant class takes alot of work but the rewards are great. If you could stat resets to achieve this it wouldn't be such an achievement, imo.

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While stat resets are fun and easy™, I think they definitely detract from the difficulty of the game. As mentioned, part of the pride of having a forger or brewer is that it isn't easy. The same applies to all other classes: If I want to 99 my Bard as fast as possible, I'm going to have a ton of agi. Doing so will leave me useless for WoE, and that's the tradeoff. I shouldn't have the luxury of being able to speed level then change builds once I'm done.

 

An unlimited-use stat reset would drop the server into the pile of others, in my humble opinion.

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I also agree on the limited stat reset thing. Maybe the two options you propose Trojal are almost too forgiving (unless they wouldn't be full stat resets?).

Something like @Charlie Loves U suggests where it's similar to RE:Start, but maybe slightly more forgiving.

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I've always quite liked what iRO Chaos did for Christmas - a choice between some free items or a free stat and skill reset, once per character.

 

Maybe something similar, where you can get a reset, but the npc is only available during an event period?

Could even make it cost something still, to stop everyone from resetting for the hell of it when it's available 😂

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Like others said, I think it's better to not have a full stat reset, or people will just use pvm builds to 99, then switch to a build of choice.  I think a limited stat reset would be good to tweak builds.  Maybe something like 10 points a week, so it would still be quicker to lvl a new character, but the option would be there if people have patience.

 

I would like a skill reset implemented in some fashion, though.

Edited by Dah_Nile

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On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 6:16 AM, njosefbeck said:

Maybe the two options you propose Trojal are almost too forgiving

Kind of this. When presented with the above options, it steers the conversation. Maybe we should start with "Should it exist?" and then move onto the how. If one is to be implemented, I would favor steep restrictions; either only a handful of points over a long period of time (to allow people to fix a misclick. It actually happened to me on Odin), or, an event-based full reset that only occurs once or twice a year. 

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2 hours ago, Kuitsu said:

Kind of this. When presented with the above options, it steers the conversation. Maybe we should start with "Should it exist?" and then move onto the how. If one is to be implemented, I would favor steep restrictions; either only a handful of points over a long period of time (to allow people to fix a misclick. It actually happened to me on Odin), or, an event-based full reset that only occurs once or twice a year. 

Additionally, if we have a test server (as Trojal mentioned in Discord), then that lessen even further the need for full resets. I could still see a limited-point stat reset being useful for those misclick moments.

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Revo Classic is a relatively new server type that hasn't fully been figured out yet. It's best to give the population some leeway to adjust their stats.

Limited stat resets are probably the best option to go with. This is one of the few things that iRO RE:Start did well.

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I'll be "that guy" and post a different opinion.

I think we should have stat/skill reset, and it should cost zeny. Not 10 stats per week, or twice a year. Just unlimited stat/skill reset for zeny. I played a server where it was free under level 60, post 60 it increases up to 1.5mil zeny. People didn't change build every week because it was expensive, and it was also a zeny sink for those who did use it.

The sever is going to start pre-trans and gradually gain new items/trans/stat sticks, so our builds are going to change overtime.

"Oh but why don't you just make a new character?" Well, because I work 6 days a week and I want to enjoy mvp/pvp/End game dungeons without thinking "oh I've finally got x item so now i need to optimize my build because i dont need so much y stat."

On the topic of leeching - let's be realistic. People are going to leech. I would much rather leech my alchemist to 99 with a priest TU'ing, or a wizard in magma than actually going and getting the gear to become a battlechemist to manually level then reset. Leeching will always be the answer, whether you give them stat/skill resets or not.

That's my two cents. I'll be playing the server either way, it's just food for thought.

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On 10/05/2018 at 11:32 AM, Androgyny said:

I'll be "that guy" and post a different opinion.

I think we should have stat/skill reset, and it should cost zeny. Not 10 stats per week, or twice a year. Just unlimited stat/skill reset for zeny. I played a server where it was free under level 60, post 60 it increases up to 1.5mil zeny. People didn't change build every week because it was expensive, and it was also a zeny sink for those who did use it.

The sever is going to start pre-trans and gradually gain new items/trans/stat sticks, so our builds are going to change overtime.

"Oh but why don't you just make a new character?" Well, because I work 6 days a week and I want to enjoy mvp/pvp/End game dungeons without thinking "oh I've finally got x item so now i need to optimize my build because i dont need so much y stat."

On the topic of leeching - let's be realistic. People are going to leech. I would much rather leech my alchemist to 99 with a priest TU'ing, or a wizard in magma than actually going and getting the gear to become a battlechemist to manually level then reset. Leeching will always be the answer, whether you give them stat/skill resets or not.

That's my two cents. I'll be playing the server either way, it's just food for thought.

I do agree with a free reset below a certain level, definitely.

Actually... I pretty much agree with all of it :P

Honestly, the only thing I wouldn't want is a full stat reset - certain builds are hard to level and that should stay rewarding, rather than using a PvM build to 99 and then resetting to forger/brewer/WoE build. For those, there are always guilds that take you along anyway or you can leech, both works.

 

I'm pretty sure it's already been decided that there will be a stat reset, but I don't think it's been finalised.

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As it sort of fits in here, will there be a skill reset NPC?

I don't find skill resets as game breaking as a full stat reset, especially early in the game.

Would be nice having an NPC that allows infinite skill resets for all characters below and at base level 85, and everything past that should require a high zeny fee I guess or whatever else you had planned for skill resets.

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I think the idea of stat/skill reset is good if it is implemented as a zeny sink.
The idea of paying zeny in game to get a stat reset is something I really like, specially if it's expensive and if the quantity of zeny needed grows in time (for example the first time is 1m, the 2nd 2m, the 3rd 3m...etc etc).
This can give you the chance to change your playstyle in the case you are bored but it also prevent the abuse of the system.

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I'm usually fine with either way. But I really want a stat reset on this server because Im not familiar with renewal stats mechanics. 

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Like the friend Bisky, im not so familiar with Renewal Mechanics, so i would like a Stat Reset...

as everyone else said, its important to be limited. (A full/easier/cheaper reset until lv60 doesnt hurt too).

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In my opinion a stat reset would be nice; which is eventually needed anyway. 

1 possible stat reset a month is fine with a little bit of a Quest and some Zeny to spend on. Since adding a Build Manager is a bit out of the question.

Edited by Rikazu

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I don't believe in stat resets. It will encourage to have one character and just switch stats whenever they want to do something different. I'm a bigger fan of people creating multiple characters for different specialties. 

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2 hours ago, wompie said:

I don't believe in stat resets. It will encourage to have one character and just switch stats whenever they want to do something different. I'm a bigger fan of people creating multiple characters for different specialties. 

That's why we'll only be getting limited resets, mostly to fix small mistakes.

 

The point should be that it's easier/cheaper to create a character for a different build than resetting to it.

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I think there's a solid argument for people who aren't used to renewal mechanics.  Maybe give a free full reset before 70 or around there?  I still wouldn't want full resets available at any time.

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5 hours ago, Dah_Nile said:

I think there's a solid argument for people who aren't used to renewal mechanics.  Maybe give a free full reset before 70 or around there?  I still wouldn't want full resets available at any time.

Maybe it could be that until we have a test server up? Since with a test server, people can test renewal mechanics and their stat builds all they want (I would assume). (Also there are no real details about how the test server will work yet, as it's still being discussed.)

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